On Monday’s show, Buck took a call from Andy McCarthy, Contributing Editor of National Review and a former US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, whose expertise has been invaluable in rooting through FISAGate.

Buck led the discussion off by asking what the status was of the story involving Susan Rice abusing FISA or any other apparatus for political purposes.

“Things seem to have gotten quiet on that front,” said Andy, who added that he believes that in the current political climate, that’s bad news for the Left. “There’s more and more indication that the intelligence-collecting powers of the government were exploited by the Obama administration for purposes of doing monitoring on their political opposition. The interesting question now is whether that started with Donald Trump or whether it predates Trump. There’s a growing body of evidence that it predates Trump.”

McCarthy described how groups in opposition to the Iran deal may also have been surveilled for political purpose.

Buck asked if Andy’s gut tells him something “dirty” happened.

“I feel there was an abuse of power. I’m not satisfied that prosecutable crimes were committed other than leaking classified information to the media–which is a serious felony. And I think if you could prove there was a scheme, you’d have a lot of people implicated in that. But I’m of the mind that the abuse of government power is a much more serious matter. Abuse of power is an abuse of a position of trust.”

Buck then asked about the forthcoming debate over FISA, which is an act that’s due to expire this year.

“I think [it’s] extremely important for keeping the country safe,” said McCarthy. “I’ve always thought the remedy that Congress came up with after the spying scandals in the ‘70s was an illusory one, which was, let’s put these programs under the supervision of the courts. This is no slight on the courts, their legal acumen is top shelf, but they don’t have institutional competence when it comes to the handling of classified information and the gathering of foreign intelligence.”

He continued, “Most intelligence collection in the foreign realm is not directed at people who are under the jurisdiction of the courts. It’s targeted at people who do not have America’s best interests at heart. This is a realm that should be controlled not by legal processes but by political processes. If they are abused, it’s not the answer to curtail the powers, it’s to punish the abusers.”

“I’d like to see Donald Trump make some of this info public,” said Buck, “and end this war of unsourced information.”

Andy agreed. “In the broad trajectory of this, when you look at the IRS scandal, you look at prosecution of the producer of the Benghazi video, or the targeting of journalists that was done to gather information supposedly about leaks, Fast & Furious…when you look at all these abuses of government authority, it’s highly unlikely to me to believe [the Obama administration was] in pristine compliance with the law when it comes to foreign intelligence collection authority.”

Hear the interview in full by clicking the media above.